UK Joins Canada Against Boeing Over Bombardier Investigation File


#192

On a fantasy note, Let’s say Northrop buys intellectual rights to the North American Aerospace brand name from Boeing. Then say Northrop Grumman uses it to form a new company that say Bombardier, L3, or Bigalow to name some examples to invest in, like the HULU model (where Fox/ABC/NBC owns ~30% each) for aerospace. Plants in both countries could build same aircraft to sell getting around tarrifs like auto makers do but this is well beyond my knowledge that they pay high dollar lawyers and international trading brokers to figure out.


#193

Thank you. Honestly I can’t understand people who say stuff like that.


#194

I actually have to do an essay on this topic for one of my classes of mine, and I’ve learned some new things about this issue, that I found interesting, and I’d like to share it with you all!

Primary sources were used (DM for more info)

  • The tariff the US Department of Commerce (DOC) placed on the aircraft is actually for all 100 to 150 seat aircraft (in standard 2 class layout) imported from Canada, and NOT specifically to Bombardier. Although the percentage of duties were directly derived from the investigations of Bombardier.
  • Boeing considers itself the sole member of this aircraft market/industry (100 to 150 seats), until, Airbus starts manufacturing their A319neo in Mobile in 2019, when it to will be considered domestic, as it already is with the 320 & 321.
  • The Bombardier-Airbus partnership will not affect the investigations, since it has not been finalized.
  • It is Boeing’s claim that Bombardier sold the CS100 to Delta at $19.6M, and the ALSO claim that the CS300 was sold to Air Canada at $30 Million.

#195

Airbus currently is marketing the plan and has over 50% ownership. So that is why. It’s technically the kinda owner. Also, it’s helping bombardier get into the states by using it’s us based factory.


#196

MaxSez: Limited Interest for an exclusive audience with a Nationalistic Bent. As I said before; “If it ain’t Boeing it ain’t Going”!
Up the Republic, and the rising of the Moon!


#197

Replying to what I said back in Sept 2017 when Airbus didn’t own Bombardier yet doesn’t give you good argument.

Look at first sentence of second paragraph. Airbus didn’t do any action at that time because they were probably planning to take over Bombardier.


#198

If it ain’t Airbus it ain’t for us!
I have a huge group of avgeek friends online and at my school and just in touch with me and the majority of us are Airbus lovers. That’s our motto.

I don’t see the logic in saying because it isn’t Boeing than the CSeries and Airbus pact is something that shouldn’t be happening. I could say the same thing about the Boeing and Embrear thing that’s going on.


#200

Didn’t look at you post date. Sorry bout that


#201

None of those sayings make sense. You’re probably not going to cancel your flight just because it wasn’t the plane manufacturer you wanted :P


#202

That is why I’m proud to say I have never flown an Airbus aircraft, never had to cancel a flight, pure luck


#203

Now this line is what doesn’t make sense lol. Airbus Aircraft always delay but Boeing doesn’t? I’ve had more delays on Boeing than I’ve had on Airbus. Lol.


#204

I’m saying by pure luck I’ve never had to cancel a flight because it was airbus. All the time I have gone on Boeing, never been on an Airbus


#206

I HAVE POSTED THE PREVIOUS POLLS AND MADE THEM PRIVATE!

Would you consider the Boeing to have a product in the 100 to 149 seat market?

  • No, not at all.
  • Yes, the 7M7 is definitely in the 100 to 149 seat market.
  • Yes, because they sell used 717s and E90s.

0 voters

If you agree that both ‘yeses’ are true, then please answer that the former ‘yes’. The latter one has nothing to do with the 7M7.


If you answered, “Yes, the 7M7 is definitely in the 100 to 149 seat market.” to the previous question, please answer the following.

Does Boeing really have a place in the 100 to 149 seat market. (Airbus definitely does, now)

  • No, Bombardier (and Embraer less so) is outselling them insanely.
  • Yes, they have received sufficient orders.
  • Barely, they compete well with Embraer and Bombardier, but not well enough.

0 voters


Possible guide to help you vote?!


Follow up question!

How many orders does an aircraft variant (not family) from a major manufacturer (Airbus & Boeing) need at the LEAST to be considered to have received sufficient orders? (Numbers lower than the number you selected, means that they did not receive sufficient orders)

  • 50 or less
  • 50-100
  • 200-300
  • 400-500
  • 500-1000
  • 1000-2000
  • 2000+

0 voters


More follow ups to come.


In other news Canada has triggered NAFTA Chapter 19 on this situation and on lumber imports too.

News articles.

https://globalnews.ca/news/3977126/canada-triggers-nafta-chapter-19-over-hefty-bombardier-tarriffs/

http://business.financialpost.com/news/economy/government-triggers-nafta-chapter-19-over-punitive-u-s-import-duties


#207

MaxSez: I don’t care what the “Little UpStarts Do… If it ain’t Boeing it ain’t Going”… “Up the Republic and the rising of the Moon”!


#208

Posting this chart here for future reference.
Seating chart for regional/small single aisle aircraft.


Some more news coming soon.


#209

The ITC considers any aircraft that has a range longer than 2900nm with around 100 to 150 seats to be a competitor to the 100 to 150 seat market. Embraer has just publicly confirmed that the E190-E2 has came out better than expected and along other thing has more range than the original 2850nm. This would make the E190-E2 a competitor, and also potentially include it in this case. The Embraer vice president also said to FlightGlobal that efficiency improvements have upped the range to 2900nm. Bombardier requested that the ITC reopen and accept this new information for the decision this coming Friday (see Reuters article) and that this renders Boeings claim that the C Series competes heat-to-head with the incorrect. The ITC rejected and did not accept the new info. Boeing argued that the E190 is a regional plane and doesn’t compete with the C Series or 737 MAX.


In other news, a congressman and a senator gave their support to Bombardier and wrote to the ITC concerning the issue.


If any of you remember the Boeing in Canada website from a couple months back, showing how much Boeing is committed to Canada…

I just came across this website from Bombardier with numerous news sources including some from AP, Bloomberg, and Reuters that disprove Boeing’s claims.


#210

Looks like Bombardier won


#211

Bombardier now has their foot in the door, the general market consensus is: “uhhhh, what?”.


#212

OMG I ALMOST DIED FROM SHOCK WHEN I SAW THIS.

BOMBARDIER HAS WON
I repeat, Bombardier has won.
More info coming soon!


#213

Bombardier has won the trade dispute it has had in the US. This means that the tarif of 300% will no longer be imposed on CS orders. I think this is great news for Bombardier and the C Series